I basically write feature and educational articles. I am terrified of dialogues! I try my hand in short stories but I've all narrative. When I try dialogue it usually is a one of and then a descriptive reaction of the dialog partner. I can't seem to get myself into someone else s talking head.
Zoe - here you go. just do it, dear. My complements.
But with a woman like Louise
and a town full of weak-minded men
there was bound to be trouble one day…
It came on a Sunday morning in early fall
leaves on the ground but warm - almost sweaty.
Forecast was for snow two days hence according to the paper and the radio, imagine that - they agreed for once.
And this time, they could be right,
there was definitely something in the air…
…..
“Bertram been around?” Two meanings to that question.
She didn't answer.
“Are you on the clock, deputy?” as she laid that bacon down in the hot skillet.
He was back in uniform
and didn’t bother to answer either.
She put on her housecoat,
no sense in baring those big beautiful brown nipples to a hot snap from the bacon fat, “Are you going to church, deputy?”
He watched as she began to sway gently.
He thought about getting behind her again, “Yes Louise, I plan to. Do you?”
“This here,” her backside to him, as she raised the spatula and wound it up - thrust a big fine hip, “is my church.”
Louise slipped out back for a second
returned with four big brown eggs in one hand
picking feathers and straw with the other
and cracked ‘em in with the bacon.
It’s a big skillet
When in stole the Bertram in question like a big silent tom and took him a look around. He pulled a chair and sat down across from the deputy. They studied on each other.
“What are you doing here Bertram?”
“I’d ask the same of you,” and damn he was a smooth talker.
“I’m thinking about another cup of coffee…”
“I don’t see no cup. Anyways - I live here.”
“No Bertram - you do not. You’ve never lived here. That’s a straight up lie. To a sworn officer.”
Could’ve gone a different way but…
“Bertram, I heard you lost your job.”
“I left my job,” Bertram crossed his legs, “got tired of that old man.”
“Well what kind of work you looking for Bertram?”
“Nothing at the moment. I’m on what religious white folk call sabbatical.”
Well that sat there between ‘em.
Bertam finally spoke, “You on duty deputy?”
“I’m in the uniform.”
“What you doing here again?”
The deputy didn’t answer, just looked back at Bertram
“So, you looking for something. Well deputy on duty, since I’m here too, maybe I’ll help you find it.”
Neither noticed Louise had stopped her swaying.
“Well I’ll ask again - are you on duty here, deputy?”
“And I’ll answer the same - I’m in the uniform.”
His gunbelt lay on the table.
They were both looking at it.
“Bertram, you never turned in that firearm like you were told to…”
“No deputy duty, I did not, but can you be more specific - the warrant was so vague. Which one?”
“Which one?”
“Yeah. Which one. Describe it.”
“Smith & Wesson revolver, .40 caliber, lacquered wood grip, black finish, six shot with a six inch barrel. It’s a fine weapon in a sweet butter holster, easy draw and always one in the chamber. Can’t say if the safety’s on or off. Know it?”
“Know it? I got one just like it deputy...but mine’s nickel and it ain’t in no holster.”
“Is that so…”
She’d just put on the toast. The shotgun was by her bed - but no need for a bloodbath here.
Behind her, Louise heard a slight creek from one of her table chairs and that’s when she decided, with a god given rage - that’s enough dick talk for one Sunday morning and it’s a shame - this is a nice breakfast...
She swung around, that housecoat spilled open and went afly like the wings of the beautiful angel of death. She poured half a pound of bacon, four squeaking eggs and every bit of that hot fat in the deputy’s lap and then two-handed rang Bertram’s bell with the backside of that skillet all in one smooth motion, “and get the fuck out my church!!!”
Just a general question and request for resources, if known:
I am a white woman writing a story with a cast of multicultural characters. Due to their backgrounds, they all have unique cadences, abbreviations, and intonations. I'm really trying hard to avoid stereotyping or diminishing certain groups, but it would also feel disingenuous to write these characters without considering their unique musicality, so to speak. Does anyone have any insights about how to walk this line respectfully? Resources?
Ha! Well, to the extent that it's so far removed from our local/daily life, you get a little license here. But (and I'm sure you're doing all this!) just reading everything you can get your hands on about the subject, and with a focus on that person's P.O.V., will help you flesh out an authentic voice hugely. Love your ambition with this story!
Hi Zoe, I love that you're considering this instead of just assuming you can master all voices and backgrounds (as, ahem, chauvinistic white male writers have been doing for eons!). I think here's the place to start: I always ask myself first, "why am I writing characters so far beyond my own experience and "voice"?" And if the reason is that I'm CURIOUS about that life experience (versus: already acquainted with that life experience), I think I need to bring my curiosity to the forefront and integrate reading eyes from these other demographics. It needs to become a conversation. If I'm *not* that curious, then I feel like I shouldn't be writing it at all—that's then about me commandeering other people's lived experiences, as a white women, and I don't ever want to do that. I want to be writing in a way that is inclusive, always, and if I think my limited know-how (per story or dialogue) is all that's needed, I'm not being inclusive at all. How this is usually handled in a writers room (or: in a GREAT writers room!) is that writers from all walks of life and POC talents are brought in (as they should be!) when the characters are also POC. Though of course we should have ample POC representation in every writing room! This is all to say, you're asking the right questions. It's super important to be sensitive and willing to learn the limits of your own perspective—which you're doing.
That's the actor's job. But it needs be written first. "I love him so much!" if you know what I'm talking about and that great moment may have been spontaneous, not scripted at all.
ps. I go around all the time running dialogue out loud to myself. And the dogs. And the neighbors. And gods. Mail carriers. Birds and squirrels. It really does a trick.
So dialogue I like writing best? Internal dialogue. I might have a conversation going on, but if I'm able to chat about it with my character's voice, that internal monologue to pair with the actual dialogue is so much fun--especially when a character is hiding something or trying to keep the other person from figuring out how they really feel. Romance trope go!
The hardest dialogue I am finding is actually screenwriting types. The "scene" writing we did this week really made me realize how much "stage direction" there needs to be in scenes--and how a director can actually shape and mold those scenes to mean something less or more than the author intended. It's both fascinating to me, because I know nothing about screenwriting, but just that one exercise makes me want to know more.
How do screenwriters indicate movement, action, and feelings in a screenplay? Is this the same for playwriting? How much is left up to interpretation? How many different ways can a person or actor change the scene with just slight inflections on words or with a simple change of tone? How can that add to or detract from the whole?
Those are things I never really considered coming from a fantasy and poetry background, but it's exciting to consider, and I'm looking forward to learning more along the way that might add to my toolkit for future short story and novel writing.
Ooh yes I love the opportunity for contradiction between a character's internal thoughts and speech. Much easier in a novel where you can show all of that inner monologue stuff, but you're right - much harder to do in a screenplay where the subtext has to be visual or implied between the lines of dialogue.
I think Lauren's going to head over here to join in the convo so I'm sure she'll have some expert advice for you!
I write nonfiction, mostly personal essay and memoir, but I include dialogue in pretty much every piece because I think it's more interesting than only narrative. Because I write about real people and real incidents, I do my best to honestly record what they would have said, using the language and or cadence I associate with them. I'm not sure it's easier to try to recreate actual dialogue, though. I'm always careful not to "pretty up" a character's speech or to run it through a grammarian lens. At the same time, it needs to be clear to the reader, and not all speech is. It may be more difficult to capture actual dialogue and nonverbal cues, especially from an imperfect memory.
Oh yes, dialogue is such an art in non-fiction and memoir - and a tricky balance too. It's amazing how some conversations really do stick in your memory almost verbatim while others are totally paraphrased (or wildly different depending on who's remembering it!).
I guess I cheat a bit. The characters, except for a few folks like people who fix pipes or cars, are pretty educated and speak "the same language.." So far I haven't brought too many different nationalities in. I brought a young British woman in, who acted as a maid/nanny, and I know that when they pronounce "Ma'am," it sounds like "Mum." My editor didn't allow it, saying that it is what the British people call their mothers, which is correct....but they still don't say "Ma'am" with American pronunciation. What does one do in a case like this? Anyone have any answer?
As A. C. notes, it's never a problem to note that a word sounds like something different than the way you wrote it. Have the character note it, and let it help them explain their feelings about the new character in some way. Or if it's pure dialogue, you can just note the other person having heard "mum" and realizing she meant "ma'am".
As a role-player, I used to write the most ridiculous accents imaginable, and it really annoyed some of my fellow role-players. But others found it amazing and enjoyable and complimented me on choosing to write out things in such a way. It forced them to take a moment...to try to figure out what I meant, and often it led to some rather amusing, and interesting questions and interactions.
As an aside, I had a "Highlands" accented character that used to talk like this:
"Ahh...aye. Yeh. I kin see th'joy'n tha'. 'S'na trouble t'clear out an' let ye hae a momen' t'yerself."
While this was text dialogue in a video game that I was writing out (Dark Age of Camelot, to be exact), it really helped me to learn to think on my feet, do improvisational work, and to get inside a character's thoughts and mode of speech. I highly recommend video game RP if you're able to do so. I haven't done it in several years, but I still have a character and play her in World of Warcraft. And maybe, one of these days, I'll write for her and RP with her again. But the ideas linger and remain. Honestly, though, if you have someone who enjoys GM'ing (being a Game Master, or essentially the person who "runs the game or scenario" and thus controls the factors outside of your character's control) it can be a good way to learn a character--find out how they would react or what they would do.
That is hard. I don't like a lot of phonetic spellings in dialogue to show an accent because they can slow down the reading for me. Dropping a "g" or contractions like "y'all" are effective without trying to spell every word with a Southern drawl.
Apart from changing the spelling, you could have another character make the observation that the word sounds like "mum" even though they know the maid is saying "ma'am." Just knowing that the maid's accent is "posh" or "working-class" can be enough.
Dialog is so hard for me. I tend to write CNF/memoir pieces and I prefer just using italics to say what people are saying but that doesn't work for more than a sentence or so. It's the punctuation marks that feel like they are slowing me down so much. I loved one of the tips in the dialog followup that suggested starting in the middle and/or ending before the end. That is a wonderful idea to show the way the reader has dropped into the story/action.
Hi Teri! Sally Rooney writes dialogue without quotation marks—and even if she didn't, I think it's an entirely fair choice to discard, if it creates artificiality for you! Screw these "rules." You can do anything you want. And YES, starting in the middle & before the end is a great hack—cuts right through to authenticity because that's how we actually talk!
I also write cnf/memoir and prefer starting in the middle of a conversation if possible. I also like returning to the beginning scene/conversation at the end. There's something circular about it. This may not be the most popular style, but I find it satisfying to read, and so that's the way I write.
I write lots of cnf/memoir too, but I usually land on the weird experimental/hybrid end of the spectrum where dialogue-in-italics is a little less frowned on, so it ends up working out--but wow yeah I feel this. What's worked for me in the past is like, interjecting some descriptive summation when I feel like a dialogue has gone on too long (or when I feel like my italics are getting exhausting) so instead of "dialogue a," said a; "dialogue b," said b, it's more like:
"These are the actual words my character is saying," I said.
Character told me that was crazy, that there wasn't any reason to type out the actual words. She said it was "weird" and that "My italics are stupid," but I just rolled my eyes. She explained that it was easy, even, to break the actual conversational dialogue out into exposition, and everything can still flow properly.
"You can pry my italics out of my cold, dead hands," I told her.
I agree it's useful to interrupt character dialogue with action or description to break up the quotes. Long passages of quotes can be difficult to read, if they're included too often.
Be like Cormac McCarthy and just forget all punctuation marks! But seriously, I think dialogue without quotes in a non-fiction piece is a legit stylistic choice. It's a way to show that, yes, there was talking but, no, I don't remember word-for-word, so here it is without quotes.
My biggest issue with dialogue is that I tend to get on this 'all or nothing' roll. I'll be seven pages into a story and realize I haven't had a single character speak yet, and oh god is it too late now, is it weird, are they breaking this big silence like in a hushed room and now all my readers will be looking at them--
Or, you know, I start writing a conversation, and it's going well, and it's flowing, and what's happening how has it been three pages? Have I even done anything else besides dialogue? How long are they talking? Why are they doing this? They haven't even gotten to the point, damn it, someone should shut them up. Oh, right, that's me. I'm the one who's supposed to shut them up.
Hi Liz, I work with a lot of fiction writers (who are trying their hand at screenwriting, but I also coach them on their fiction), and this is a VERY common snag! One thing to consider: When we're writing non-dialogue prose for several pages on end without real-world dialogue breaking through, what we're actually doing is engaging in our OWN (writerly) inner dialogue. :-) Which is why it can all feel so important and so hard to kill/edit down—it's our P.O.V., our voice writ large, and it IS precious and irreplaceable. Once we own up to that, it can be a little easier (and even liberating) to open up some spaciousness for a sprinkling of dialogue, and a break from our own narration.
This is a perfect scenario for first drafts, though. What I always call the vomit draft. I tend to overwrite and then pare down or take better control in revisions. Get it all on the table first and clean it up later is my MO.
"Oh, right, that's me. I'm the one who's supposed to shut them up." lol - the writer's eternal internal dialogue.
I mean sometimes either choice can be a stylistic or genre thing (some novels have very little dialogue, and others are packed full of it), but being aware of the balance is always a good thing when Future You comes to edit...
But seven pages without dialog, in a first draft, is fine, imo. Or vice versa. That, to me, is part of the rewriting process, when you notice these things and figure out how to manage them. When you have an internal narrative that is rolling, just keep writing. Same with dialog with no action, get it down while the inspiration is there and then you have something to work with.
Yep. Rambling convos that go nowhere or dead silence. At least the rambling can be pared down and made relevant. Editing out is easier for me than adding in dialogue where there was dead silence.
That's totally fair! I think I have an easier time interjecting dialogue, actually, because some silly part of my brain gets attached to all the rambling dialogue like "this is how my characters sound, damn it, they're ramblers now!" & it becomes The Hill I Die On instead of a thing I can just delete & start over. Or worse, I delete & start over & then it worms its way back in!
Dialogue is so fun sometimes. I have some flash pieces that are only dialogue - two are announcers commentating on zombie sporting events and one is a dating game type show but the contestants are planets and a moon, hosted by a robot.
"Good evening, everyone. I am HOST-BOT 4000 welcoming you to another episode of Galaxy Match. Tonight's eligible bachelorette may be second from the sun, but she's first in our hearts. Let's give a warm welcome to Venus!" - it only gets sillier from there.
I love the challenge of creating a different voice for each character so they are recognizable without dialogue tags. (Now, how effective I am at any of this remains to be seen . . . )
When writing novels, dialogue is harder for me. I often don't know how much dialogue is too much. Do we want the entire back-and-forth during a long car ride, probably not, no matter how entertaining it is. And what about all those pesky hand gestures and throat clearings and eye rollings that people do while talking? How many of those details are needed? This is where I struggle.
I agree with Jo! Don't assume the reader needs all of it—they don't! (That's why chopping off the beginning & ending can help make an immediate beeline to what matters). Your job as writer (and thus god of this fictional universe) is to toss of the *exciting bits,* the change-making bits, the moments than land with a THUD that go on to send a character in a new trajectory. Remind yourself of this every time you write—and the brain gets in the habit of casually eliminating. When we are writing fiction, we are not called on to be encyclopedic, we are called on to be CHOOSY AS FUCK and deliberate. :-)
I guess the answer is probably: how long is a piece of string?
But one thing I tend to ask myself (and my editing clients) is: What is the best way to get across *this* particular detail/info? Dialogue? Internal thoughts? Action? It's gonna vary from moment to moment, and some will be better suited to dialogue than others.
Also, in terms of 'how much is too much' - my other go-to is *skip the boring bits*! So if you find yourself writing every single micro-interaction "oh, hello, how are you, let's talk about the weather" then you can probably pare it back a bit.
I've been LOVING How Real Humans Talk. I'm so glad I signed up for the email-based lessons: I got the first email while I was at my daughter's piano lesson, so I could immediately read and begin my "Urban Safari." I overheard a great conversation between two baristas, one of whom was waxing about "Nosferatu" to his coworker who was being very polite but Not. Interested. It made me think of all the times I have tried my best to be extra polite as a young woman, *especially* at work, especially to a male superior (no offense, men!). There were so many interesting ways to take that conversation/situation and it was kind of fun to let my imagination run with it :)
I am trying to incorporate these dialogue tricks into a short story WIP, which is coming along about as well as yanking out a wisdom tooth... I know my character's inner conflict and what they will "disguise" it with, but actually writing it in a way where that nuance comes across? Tricky!!!
Listening to real people talk is really fun. I have a habit of making up stories about people in public places: restaurants, airports, checkout lines, etc. Imagining relationships between them, listening to their conversations, and observing their dress and mannerisms. I don't write fiction, but it's great fun to make up my own stories about them. Their dialogue is very much a part of their story.
Right! I do this too with my fiction. The little exercise I jotted down after hearing this convo was like, keeping the dialogue mostly the same, how would the dynamics of the scene/internal tension change if:
- She really needs a promotion
- The baristas recently got together (or broke up)
- Robert Eggers is her uncle
- The guy just failed out of art school
- The girl is secretly a vampire and getting really sick of inaccurate vampire representation on the silver screen
... and so on!
Sometimes it feels like I'm scraping my brain for interesting ideas. But stories really are in reach if you're paying attention--- Which is a great reminder to myself to put down the phone and pay attention :)
Yes! We writers spend so much time banging our head on our laptops and skimming "writers block"—when really all you have to do to get the engine going is loop around the block and start to listen. The world is dripping with story and character, and dialogue is the portal! This is why I wanted to create this course—muscling up your dialogue game can be such a help to any type of writer! I'm so glad you're taking the class, and I hope you'll fictionalize this "Nosferatu" gem! Feels like it would be hilarious.
That is tricky! Conveying subtext effectively can be a balancing act. It's like writing something sarcastic or ironic and worrying if you don't type "jk" someone will be pissed!
I would offer: Sarcasm (or self-congratulatory irony) doesn't work well in real life. It just doesn't fly. People usually don't appreciate it, and it tends to shut-down the conversation because it's the end of any sincere communication. For this same reason, I think it's wise to mostly sidestep it in fiction. The exception of course being an obnoxious character who is tone-deaf to how their sarcasm is being received—because that's a comedic/tragic goldmine! But my point is: I'd use it sparingly, and just with these types of characters (or in moments of real misstep).
To answer the other part of your question: I think how you control for it (or make it super clear) on the page is in how the OTHER character in the conversation responds. That tells us everything.
Context, as always, is very important. There are no absolutes. Sarcasm is basically a love language between me and most of my coworkers, but we've built that relationship over time through our shared loves of word-play and irony.
As you said, it can also shut-down a conversation, but that's can be used in a story as well. I made an alien who talks in sarcasm and double-speak as a type of shield so he doesn't get too attached to humans. Annoying? Yes. But effective! :)
In many of the online communities where I spent/spend a lot of my time, the shorthand version of /s is to let people know you're being sarcastic, but it's much harder to convey in actual writing sometimes. And there are people out there who don't understand that even. So...you know. Bag of mixed nuts and all that.
At the end of the day, you just do your best to convey something the best way you can, and if someone gets offended or upset, you do what you can to meliorate the injustices of your words.
I basically write feature and educational articles. I am terrified of dialogues! I try my hand in short stories but I've all narrative. When I try dialogue it usually is a one of and then a descriptive reaction of the dialog partner. I can't seem to get myself into someone else s talking head.
"Why am I the last person here? "
"Because."
"Cause what?"
"Writers."
"What do you mean?"
"Scaredy cats."
Zoe - here you go. just do it, dear. My complements.
But with a woman like Louise
and a town full of weak-minded men
there was bound to be trouble one day…
It came on a Sunday morning in early fall
leaves on the ground but warm - almost sweaty.
Forecast was for snow two days hence according to the paper and the radio, imagine that - they agreed for once.
And this time, they could be right,
there was definitely something in the air…
…..
“Bertram been around?” Two meanings to that question.
She didn't answer.
“Are you on the clock, deputy?” as she laid that bacon down in the hot skillet.
He was back in uniform
and didn’t bother to answer either.
She put on her housecoat,
no sense in baring those big beautiful brown nipples to a hot snap from the bacon fat, “Are you going to church, deputy?”
He watched as she began to sway gently.
He thought about getting behind her again, “Yes Louise, I plan to. Do you?”
“This here,” her backside to him, as she raised the spatula and wound it up - thrust a big fine hip, “is my church.”
Louise slipped out back for a second
returned with four big brown eggs in one hand
picking feathers and straw with the other
and cracked ‘em in with the bacon.
It’s a big skillet
When in stole the Bertram in question like a big silent tom and took him a look around. He pulled a chair and sat down across from the deputy. They studied on each other.
“What are you doing here Bertram?”
“I’d ask the same of you,” and damn he was a smooth talker.
“I’m thinking about another cup of coffee…”
“I don’t see no cup. Anyways - I live here.”
“No Bertram - you do not. You’ve never lived here. That’s a straight up lie. To a sworn officer.”
Could’ve gone a different way but…
“Bertram, I heard you lost your job.”
“I left my job,” Bertram crossed his legs, “got tired of that old man.”
“Well what kind of work you looking for Bertram?”
“Nothing at the moment. I’m on what religious white folk call sabbatical.”
Well that sat there between ‘em.
Bertam finally spoke, “You on duty deputy?”
“I’m in the uniform.”
“What you doing here again?”
The deputy didn’t answer, just looked back at Bertram
“So, you looking for something. Well deputy on duty, since I’m here too, maybe I’ll help you find it.”
Neither noticed Louise had stopped her swaying.
“Well I’ll ask again - are you on duty here, deputy?”
“And I’ll answer the same - I’m in the uniform.”
His gunbelt lay on the table.
They were both looking at it.
“Bertram, you never turned in that firearm like you were told to…”
“No deputy duty, I did not, but can you be more specific - the warrant was so vague. Which one?”
“Which one?”
“Yeah. Which one. Describe it.”
“Smith & Wesson revolver, .40 caliber, lacquered wood grip, black finish, six shot with a six inch barrel. It’s a fine weapon in a sweet butter holster, easy draw and always one in the chamber. Can’t say if the safety’s on or off. Know it?”
“Know it? I got one just like it deputy...but mine’s nickel and it ain’t in no holster.”
“Is that so…”
She’d just put on the toast. The shotgun was by her bed - but no need for a bloodbath here.
Behind her, Louise heard a slight creek from one of her table chairs and that’s when she decided, with a god given rage - that’s enough dick talk for one Sunday morning and it’s a shame - this is a nice breakfast...
She swung around, that housecoat spilled open and went afly like the wings of the beautiful angel of death. She poured half a pound of bacon, four squeaking eggs and every bit of that hot fat in the deputy’s lap and then two-handed rang Bertram’s bell with the backside of that skillet all in one smooth motion, “and get the fuck out my church!!!”
Just a general question and request for resources, if known:
I am a white woman writing a story with a cast of multicultural characters. Due to their backgrounds, they all have unique cadences, abbreviations, and intonations. I'm really trying hard to avoid stereotyping or diminishing certain groups, but it would also feel disingenuous to write these characters without considering their unique musicality, so to speak. Does anyone have any insights about how to walk this line respectfully? Resources?
Thanks for the feedback. Any idea how I might get in touch with a Somali pirate? 🤔
Ha! Well, to the extent that it's so far removed from our local/daily life, you get a little license here. But (and I'm sure you're doing all this!) just reading everything you can get your hands on about the subject, and with a focus on that person's P.O.V., will help you flesh out an authentic voice hugely. Love your ambition with this story!
Hi Zoe, I love that you're considering this instead of just assuming you can master all voices and backgrounds (as, ahem, chauvinistic white male writers have been doing for eons!). I think here's the place to start: I always ask myself first, "why am I writing characters so far beyond my own experience and "voice"?" And if the reason is that I'm CURIOUS about that life experience (versus: already acquainted with that life experience), I think I need to bring my curiosity to the forefront and integrate reading eyes from these other demographics. It needs to become a conversation. If I'm *not* that curious, then I feel like I shouldn't be writing it at all—that's then about me commandeering other people's lived experiences, as a white women, and I don't ever want to do that. I want to be writing in a way that is inclusive, always, and if I think my limited know-how (per story or dialogue) is all that's needed, I'm not being inclusive at all. How this is usually handled in a writers room (or: in a GREAT writers room!) is that writers from all walks of life and POC talents are brought in (as they should be!) when the characters are also POC. Though of course we should have ample POC representation in every writing room! This is all to say, you're asking the right questions. It's super important to be sensitive and willing to learn the limits of your own perspective—which you're doing.
That's the actor's job. But it needs be written first. "I love him so much!" if you know what I'm talking about and that great moment may have been spontaneous, not scripted at all.
ps. I go around all the time running dialogue out loud to myself. And the dogs. And the neighbors. And gods. Mail carriers. Birds and squirrels. It really does a trick.
Thank you 😊 🙏 💓 ☺️ 💗 💛 😊 🙏 💓 ☺️ 💗 💛 😊 🙏 💓 ☺️ 💗 💛 😊 🙏 💓 ☺️ 💗 💛 😊 🙏 💓 ☺️ 💗 💛 😊 🙏 💓 ☺️ 💗 💛 😊 🙏 💓 ☺️ 💗 💛 😊 🙏 💓 ☺️ 💗 💛 😊 🙏 💓 ☺️ 💗 💛 😊 🙏 💓 ☺️ 💗 💛 😊 🙏 💓 ☺️ 💗
So dialogue I like writing best? Internal dialogue. I might have a conversation going on, but if I'm able to chat about it with my character's voice, that internal monologue to pair with the actual dialogue is so much fun--especially when a character is hiding something or trying to keep the other person from figuring out how they really feel. Romance trope go!
The hardest dialogue I am finding is actually screenwriting types. The "scene" writing we did this week really made me realize how much "stage direction" there needs to be in scenes--and how a director can actually shape and mold those scenes to mean something less or more than the author intended. It's both fascinating to me, because I know nothing about screenwriting, but just that one exercise makes me want to know more.
How do screenwriters indicate movement, action, and feelings in a screenplay? Is this the same for playwriting? How much is left up to interpretation? How many different ways can a person or actor change the scene with just slight inflections on words or with a simple change of tone? How can that add to or detract from the whole?
Those are things I never really considered coming from a fantasy and poetry background, but it's exciting to consider, and I'm looking forward to learning more along the way that might add to my toolkit for future short story and novel writing.
Ooh yes I love the opportunity for contradiction between a character's internal thoughts and speech. Much easier in a novel where you can show all of that inner monologue stuff, but you're right - much harder to do in a screenplay where the subtext has to be visual or implied between the lines of dialogue.
I think Lauren's going to head over here to join in the convo so I'm sure she'll have some expert advice for you!
"Does dropping the 'g' ungerund a gerund? Askin' for a friend, know I'm sayin'."
An ironclad defence
I write nonfiction, mostly personal essay and memoir, but I include dialogue in pretty much every piece because I think it's more interesting than only narrative. Because I write about real people and real incidents, I do my best to honestly record what they would have said, using the language and or cadence I associate with them. I'm not sure it's easier to try to recreate actual dialogue, though. I'm always careful not to "pretty up" a character's speech or to run it through a grammarian lens. At the same time, it needs to be clear to the reader, and not all speech is. It may be more difficult to capture actual dialogue and nonverbal cues, especially from an imperfect memory.
Oh yes, dialogue is such an art in non-fiction and memoir - and a tricky balance too. It's amazing how some conversations really do stick in your memory almost verbatim while others are totally paraphrased (or wildly different depending on who's remembering it!).
So true! Just ask my brother. 😏
Omg differing siblings/family povs are the woooooorst
I guess I cheat a bit. The characters, except for a few folks like people who fix pipes or cars, are pretty educated and speak "the same language.." So far I haven't brought too many different nationalities in. I brought a young British woman in, who acted as a maid/nanny, and I know that when they pronounce "Ma'am," it sounds like "Mum." My editor didn't allow it, saying that it is what the British people call their mothers, which is correct....but they still don't say "Ma'am" with American pronunciation. What does one do in a case like this? Anyone have any answer?
As A. C. notes, it's never a problem to note that a word sounds like something different than the way you wrote it. Have the character note it, and let it help them explain their feelings about the new character in some way. Or if it's pure dialogue, you can just note the other person having heard "mum" and realizing she meant "ma'am".
As a role-player, I used to write the most ridiculous accents imaginable, and it really annoyed some of my fellow role-players. But others found it amazing and enjoyable and complimented me on choosing to write out things in such a way. It forced them to take a moment...to try to figure out what I meant, and often it led to some rather amusing, and interesting questions and interactions.
As an aside, I had a "Highlands" accented character that used to talk like this:
"Ahh...aye. Yeh. I kin see th'joy'n tha'. 'S'na trouble t'clear out an' let ye hae a momen' t'yerself."
While this was text dialogue in a video game that I was writing out (Dark Age of Camelot, to be exact), it really helped me to learn to think on my feet, do improvisational work, and to get inside a character's thoughts and mode of speech. I highly recommend video game RP if you're able to do so. I haven't done it in several years, but I still have a character and play her in World of Warcraft. And maybe, one of these days, I'll write for her and RP with her again. But the ideas linger and remain. Honestly, though, if you have someone who enjoys GM'ing (being a Game Master, or essentially the person who "runs the game or scenario" and thus controls the factors outside of your character's control) it can be a good way to learn a character--find out how they would react or what they would do.
That is hard. I don't like a lot of phonetic spellings in dialogue to show an accent because they can slow down the reading for me. Dropping a "g" or contractions like "y'all" are effective without trying to spell every word with a Southern drawl.
Apart from changing the spelling, you could have another character make the observation that the word sounds like "mum" even though they know the maid is saying "ma'am." Just knowing that the maid's accent is "posh" or "working-class" can be enough.
Dialog is so hard for me. I tend to write CNF/memoir pieces and I prefer just using italics to say what people are saying but that doesn't work for more than a sentence or so. It's the punctuation marks that feel like they are slowing me down so much. I loved one of the tips in the dialog followup that suggested starting in the middle and/or ending before the end. That is a wonderful idea to show the way the reader has dropped into the story/action.
Hi Teri! Sally Rooney writes dialogue without quotation marks—and even if she didn't, I think it's an entirely fair choice to discard, if it creates artificiality for you! Screw these "rules." You can do anything you want. And YES, starting in the middle & before the end is a great hack—cuts right through to authenticity because that's how we actually talk!
I also write cnf/memoir and prefer starting in the middle of a conversation if possible. I also like returning to the beginning scene/conversation at the end. There's something circular about it. This may not be the most popular style, but I find it satisfying to read, and so that's the way I write.
I agree! It's satisfying to read because that's really how people talk—concentric circles, only rarely leading anywhere! :-)
I write lots of cnf/memoir too, but I usually land on the weird experimental/hybrid end of the spectrum where dialogue-in-italics is a little less frowned on, so it ends up working out--but wow yeah I feel this. What's worked for me in the past is like, interjecting some descriptive summation when I feel like a dialogue has gone on too long (or when I feel like my italics are getting exhausting) so instead of "dialogue a," said a; "dialogue b," said b, it's more like:
"These are the actual words my character is saying," I said.
Character told me that was crazy, that there wasn't any reason to type out the actual words. She said it was "weird" and that "My italics are stupid," but I just rolled my eyes. She explained that it was easy, even, to break the actual conversational dialogue out into exposition, and everything can still flow properly.
"You can pry my italics out of my cold, dead hands," I told her.
I love this!!!
I agree it's useful to interrupt character dialogue with action or description to break up the quotes. Long passages of quotes can be difficult to read, if they're included too often.
Be like Cormac McCarthy and just forget all punctuation marks! But seriously, I think dialogue without quotes in a non-fiction piece is a legit stylistic choice. It's a way to show that, yes, there was talking but, no, I don't remember word-for-word, so here it is without quotes.
My biggest issue with dialogue is that I tend to get on this 'all or nothing' roll. I'll be seven pages into a story and realize I haven't had a single character speak yet, and oh god is it too late now, is it weird, are they breaking this big silence like in a hushed room and now all my readers will be looking at them--
Or, you know, I start writing a conversation, and it's going well, and it's flowing, and what's happening how has it been three pages? Have I even done anything else besides dialogue? How long are they talking? Why are they doing this? They haven't even gotten to the point, damn it, someone should shut them up. Oh, right, that's me. I'm the one who's supposed to shut them up.
Hi Liz, I work with a lot of fiction writers (who are trying their hand at screenwriting, but I also coach them on their fiction), and this is a VERY common snag! One thing to consider: When we're writing non-dialogue prose for several pages on end without real-world dialogue breaking through, what we're actually doing is engaging in our OWN (writerly) inner dialogue. :-) Which is why it can all feel so important and so hard to kill/edit down—it's our P.O.V., our voice writ large, and it IS precious and irreplaceable. Once we own up to that, it can be a little easier (and even liberating) to open up some spaciousness for a sprinkling of dialogue, and a break from our own narration.
This is a perfect scenario for first drafts, though. What I always call the vomit draft. I tend to overwrite and then pare down or take better control in revisions. Get it all on the table first and clean it up later is my MO.
"Oh, right, that's me. I'm the one who's supposed to shut them up." lol - the writer's eternal internal dialogue.
I mean sometimes either choice can be a stylistic or genre thing (some novels have very little dialogue, and others are packed full of it), but being aware of the balance is always a good thing when Future You comes to edit...
But seven pages without dialog, in a first draft, is fine, imo. Or vice versa. That, to me, is part of the rewriting process, when you notice these things and figure out how to manage them. When you have an internal narrative that is rolling, just keep writing. Same with dialog with no action, get it down while the inspiration is there and then you have something to work with.
Yep. Rambling convos that go nowhere or dead silence. At least the rambling can be pared down and made relevant. Editing out is easier for me than adding in dialogue where there was dead silence.
That's totally fair! I think I have an easier time interjecting dialogue, actually, because some silly part of my brain gets attached to all the rambling dialogue like "this is how my characters sound, damn it, they're ramblers now!" & it becomes The Hill I Die On instead of a thing I can just delete & start over. Or worse, I delete & start over & then it worms its way back in!
Dialogue is so fun sometimes. I have some flash pieces that are only dialogue - two are announcers commentating on zombie sporting events and one is a dating game type show but the contestants are planets and a moon, hosted by a robot.
"Good evening, everyone. I am HOST-BOT 4000 welcoming you to another episode of Galaxy Match. Tonight's eligible bachelorette may be second from the sun, but she's first in our hearts. Let's give a warm welcome to Venus!" - it only gets sillier from there.
I love the challenge of creating a different voice for each character so they are recognizable without dialogue tags. (Now, how effective I am at any of this remains to be seen . . . )
When writing novels, dialogue is harder for me. I often don't know how much dialogue is too much. Do we want the entire back-and-forth during a long car ride, probably not, no matter how entertaining it is. And what about all those pesky hand gestures and throat clearings and eye rollings that people do while talking? How many of those details are needed? This is where I struggle.
I agree with Jo! Don't assume the reader needs all of it—they don't! (That's why chopping off the beginning & ending can help make an immediate beeline to what matters). Your job as writer (and thus god of this fictional universe) is to toss of the *exciting bits,* the change-making bits, the moments than land with a THUD that go on to send a character in a new trajectory. Remind yourself of this every time you write—and the brain gets in the habit of casually eliminating. When we are writing fiction, we are not called on to be encyclopedic, we are called on to be CHOOSY AS FUCK and deliberate. :-)
I guess the answer is probably: how long is a piece of string?
But one thing I tend to ask myself (and my editing clients) is: What is the best way to get across *this* particular detail/info? Dialogue? Internal thoughts? Action? It's gonna vary from moment to moment, and some will be better suited to dialogue than others.
Also, in terms of 'how much is too much' - my other go-to is *skip the boring bits*! So if you find yourself writing every single micro-interaction "oh, hello, how are you, let's talk about the weather" then you can probably pare it back a bit.
I agree that dialogue is fun to read and to write. You can "say" a lot about a character just in his/her choice of words.
Yeah, that whole 'finding balance' thing is way harder than I want it to be. No tips, but my sympathies to the struggle, friend!
I feel seen. That's something. :)
I've been LOVING How Real Humans Talk. I'm so glad I signed up for the email-based lessons: I got the first email while I was at my daughter's piano lesson, so I could immediately read and begin my "Urban Safari." I overheard a great conversation between two baristas, one of whom was waxing about "Nosferatu" to his coworker who was being very polite but Not. Interested. It made me think of all the times I have tried my best to be extra polite as a young woman, *especially* at work, especially to a male superior (no offense, men!). There were so many interesting ways to take that conversation/situation and it was kind of fun to let my imagination run with it :)
I am trying to incorporate these dialogue tricks into a short story WIP, which is coming along about as well as yanking out a wisdom tooth... I know my character's inner conflict and what they will "disguise" it with, but actually writing it in a way where that nuance comes across? Tricky!!!
Listening to real people talk is really fun. I have a habit of making up stories about people in public places: restaurants, airports, checkout lines, etc. Imagining relationships between them, listening to their conversations, and observing their dress and mannerisms. I don't write fiction, but it's great fun to make up my own stories about them. Their dialogue is very much a part of their story.
Right! I do this too with my fiction. The little exercise I jotted down after hearing this convo was like, keeping the dialogue mostly the same, how would the dynamics of the scene/internal tension change if:
- She really needs a promotion
- The baristas recently got together (or broke up)
- Robert Eggers is her uncle
- The guy just failed out of art school
- The girl is secretly a vampire and getting really sick of inaccurate vampire representation on the silver screen
... and so on!
Sometimes it feels like I'm scraping my brain for interesting ideas. But stories really are in reach if you're paying attention--- Which is a great reminder to myself to put down the phone and pay attention :)
Yes! We writers spend so much time banging our head on our laptops and skimming "writers block"—when really all you have to do to get the engine going is loop around the block and start to listen. The world is dripping with story and character, and dialogue is the portal! This is why I wanted to create this course—muscling up your dialogue game can be such a help to any type of writer! I'm so glad you're taking the class, and I hope you'll fictionalize this "Nosferatu" gem! Feels like it would be hilarious.
That is tricky! Conveying subtext effectively can be a balancing act. It's like writing something sarcastic or ironic and worrying if you don't type "jk" someone will be pissed!
I would offer: Sarcasm (or self-congratulatory irony) doesn't work well in real life. It just doesn't fly. People usually don't appreciate it, and it tends to shut-down the conversation because it's the end of any sincere communication. For this same reason, I think it's wise to mostly sidestep it in fiction. The exception of course being an obnoxious character who is tone-deaf to how their sarcasm is being received—because that's a comedic/tragic goldmine! But my point is: I'd use it sparingly, and just with these types of characters (or in moments of real misstep).
To answer the other part of your question: I think how you control for it (or make it super clear) on the page is in how the OTHER character in the conversation responds. That tells us everything.
Context, as always, is very important. There are no absolutes. Sarcasm is basically a love language between me and most of my coworkers, but we've built that relationship over time through our shared loves of word-play and irony.
As you said, it can also shut-down a conversation, but that's can be used in a story as well. I made an alien who talks in sarcasm and double-speak as a type of shield so he doesn't get too attached to humans. Annoying? Yes. But effective! :)
In many of the online communities where I spent/spend a lot of my time, the shorthand version of /s is to let people know you're being sarcastic, but it's much harder to convey in actual writing sometimes. And there are people out there who don't understand that even. So...you know. Bag of mixed nuts and all that.
At the end of the day, you just do your best to convey something the best way you can, and if someone gets offended or upset, you do what you can to meliorate the injustices of your words.
Knowing your audience goes a very long way!