Your lessons are really informative and amazing. I want to read your poems (read the titles of your poems in lesson 5) where can I read them? Do you have a website?
Thank you. Haha those ones haven't all be published yet. One will be coming out in the next issue of Moon City Review. Another is in Bending Genres. I have a website if you'd like to see: https://daviscommabenjamin.com/
As a writer of poetry & fiction one year into taking submitting more seriously. I've been delighted to receive 16 acceptances so far. Thanks to info in this course, I was prompted to research the acceptance rates of those journals to discover I'm landing work in both mid-tier (10-30% acceptance rates) and a couple of lower-level top tier journals (3-8%). This completely surprised me.
BUT (being vulnerable now) I've submitted to 3 journals featured in this lesson and received rejections. For example, I can now see, comparing my Submittable records to the selection process of "The Sun", I was likely rejected by the first reader. (It went from In-Progress, to Declined in a 5-hour period). Ouch!
My policy when receiving standard form rejections or no personal notes of encouragement is to wait 6 months to a year before submitting, because as writers we're all (ideally) on a trajectory of improvement if we're working at our craft.
Sometimes it's also about finding the right home. A poem rejected by The Sun (a 1%-er) a year ago has just been accepted by Front Porch Review (a high mid-tier journal at 13%) with only minor revisions. And when I see, by some journal's processes I've likely been rejected after one person's reading (in a large team), it makes me realize how incredibly subjective the process sometimes is.
On a down day, it's hard not to feel submitting to journals is like playing the lottery. But I know it's more than that! All we can do as writers is believe in ourselves, read widely, revise ruthlessly, seek out journals that reflect our personal obsessions and predilections, submit the best damn versions of our work - and follow the journal's submission requirements to give our work the highest possible chance of actually being read & not rejected outright. Simple, right? (No wonder writers have a reputation of being obsessive).
As submitters, it's important to celebrate our bravery and willingness to grow the hard way. For any single submitting writer, there's 50 who don't have the courage to put their work out there, to risk rejection and sweat the journal research. So, hey, let's remember to be nice to our writer selves - give them a cool notebook or a stylish pen. Or a Chill Subs subscription. Or cake ... lots of cake. :)
This lesson was amazing to get a behind-the-scenes peek at the selection process for submissions. Thanks to all the editors for their time & the insight into your processes & interesting to see the differences between them. And to Ben for bringing it together!
I guess, Ben, I'd just like to offer this feedback. As a course aimed at beginner submitters, I'd have liked to hear from editors at a mid-tier journal and even a journal at 40%- 50% acceptance rates. Of course it's possible for a talented debut writer to skate in and land in the top tier - but everything I read says "unlikely". Regardless, only hearing from the 1%-ers can be a little discouraging for writers just starting their submitting journey. It would have been interesting to compare differences to their selection process (if any), but also simply to include journals where beginner writers are more likely to receive acceptances into the conversation.
Great idea, Ben, to include a diversity of lit journals & their editors. The 1-2%ers already receive a lot of bandwidth. Sure, they have one valid perspective on what makes great reading or writing, but there are others just as valid. Some of my fave reading is in those smaller, quirkier journals - or not even quirky - but those with a very clear aesthetic like Corvid Queen or Crow & Cross Keys or Milk Candy Review.
Hi, Ben. I've a question about definitions. I see the term "indie" or "indie lit" bandied about a lot. I'd always thought it applied to smaller, more alternative lit journals / mags that certainly wouldn't be in the top tier of journals, & would have no external funding. But ways I've seen it used recently, I'm wondering does it actually apply to the lit journal scene as a whole (including those 1%-ers), as an alternative to the book publishing industry? I just want to be sure when I write about the lit journal landscape, I'm using (& understanding) it correctly.
Yes, I would say it applies to 99% of journals. Maybe would only leave out The New Yorker and Paris Review. But indie is generally considered less-known and even the most top-tier spots outside of those two and maybe harpers are not known by the vast majority of folks.
I have had exactly one story published in a magazine (it wasn't a literary magazine), and that was over 10 years ago. Do I mention that in my bio? Since it wasn't a literary magazine, do I mention it? What does the bio look like between 0 and 5 publications?
I'd include them after 3. I think a bio is a great place to show a bit of personality rather than lit mag credits. In terms of what is important. I don't think however many years ago matters. I don't think it matters whether it was a lit mag, personally.
I have a particular fascination about what goes on in the minds of others regarding creative writing, including for editors. The more specific they get (without being snarky about writers) the more clear things feel for me, as someone who has a hard time reading people's intentions and meanings. Great article.
I think I should clarify as well. There is a general funny kind of snarky that isn't really aimed at anyone maliciously. Its more (what gets me) of the snark in guidelines or articles (or even policies, even when the website statement says otherwise) that indicate a contempt for writers/artists/submitters, especially new or emerging writers, older or younger or disabled, or otherwise vulnerable writers, who are most vulnerable to quit from thinking they just don't belong, aren't ready to put themselves out there. These are the ones that get me.
I had a very positive experience with the Brevity Blog people. I can't find my correspondence with them (they don't use a submissions manager and my inbox is...yikes!) But I keep brief notes on my rejections/acceptances in a separate file and this parcticular note was "subbed and pubbed in 6 days!" Note that the subject matter was timely which lead to the quick turnaround in this case. But they are very professional, publish a lot, and have a big following.
Hi, Ben! I don't have questions, but I want you to know that I appreciate this informative series. I especially liked Lesson 6 because I have no idea what happens after I hit "Submit." Thanks!
I don't have any specific questions, but just wanted to say thanks for this course! You and all of the editors here have been so generous with your expertise and I really appreciate y'all!
This is the best behind-the-scenes piece on what happens at lit mags I've ever seen. It's so hard submitting pieces and not knowing WHAT IS HAPPENING. So this is deeply comforting. Thanks, Ben, and the editors who pulled back the curtain.
I agree! These editor responses are next level. I know it took time to write them and they are already buried in work, but I can only think it will pay off a little in terms of general good will and writers being more mindful of what and how they sub to which mags.
Two questions for editors - I've got three submissions (3 different places) where it's been well past -over 3 months - when two of these places have said 1 month for the time they respond (as stated on their websites). I've reached out to all three twice......and crickets.
Personally I think it's rude and unprofessional. Honestly, I'm about to withdraw all three pieces.
The other question is, is it worth paying extra for feedback? I've done and all but once have gotten some good constructive criticism.
Oof with feedback. That is a tough call. I know some editors truly put their hearts and souls into it. But I tend to treat feedback the same way I do drugs — if someone else had a good experience with this batch, I might give it a try. Otherwise, I tend to avoid those and would hire a freelancer directly. I know some lit mags who offer them, but just outsource to freelancers and take a cut. So, be wary. Ah and response times. Yeah that is unprofessional, but at the same time it is important to remember that not all editorial teams are 'professionals.' Many are volunteers or hobbyists and their unpaid passions can be the first thing cut when times get tough.
This is the one that gets me. I will generally give about twice the amount of time a place says they need (with a few exceptions) before reaching out, up to nine months total. But when I've hit 8 months for a 4 month magazine, or 12 months for an 8 month magazine I start to wonder. Especially if I've reached out two or three times well spaced out to account for busy lives.
But whats the worse is decently known mags that never pay, and never respond to queries about payment problems. Or maybe respond once and never again.
Those are the ones that really hurt my heart. My work was worth publishing but not worth following through on compensation. And now, even if they take my work down if they see a comment like this, I can't submit it again to any other paying magazines that don't want previously published work.
Perhaps for some its ok because the compensation doesn't matter as much. But we are at quite the disadvantage so the time, effort and energy that I spend on each mag matters. I'm pleased to be published. Not so pleased to be ghosted.
I know. Honestly, it's some bullshit. I'd cut them out of your submission plan. I will go over a lot about how to analyze a lit mag for quality in the final week. That might help. But I don't necessarily mean volunteer/unpaid is an excuse. Just that it leads to unprofessionalism in some cases. Personally, I just leave them. As long as they don't have a no sim-sub policy, I can't be bothered. And if they come in before accepted elsewhere, cool. If not, eh. But that's my philosophy with submitting. Once I hit submit, I'm done. It's in their hands. I forget about it until I get a letter one way or another.
Particularly interesting to see how many hands (and eyes) touch most of the submissions. This is why I tend not to mention a specific name in the greeting to my cover letters: I always imagine it's weird to have Geoffrey the assistant editor open my submission and read "Dear Shannon" (the editor in chief).
Yeah I only write to an editor by name if they make it clear they have a limited editorial board with no readers and one person (or two) assigned to a genre. 90% of the time 'dear editors' or 'dear readers' works.
Hi Ben! This has been such a helpful and interesting series--you've officially converted me to a paid subscriber :) I'd love any insight on etiquette/expectations around encouraging rejections for writers at an in-between stage--consistently getting those gloriously kind rejections from mags I love but not quite making it in. I posted these questions on lesson 4 but quite late, so throwing them here. Apologies if you're reading this a second time!
- I don't respond to friendly form rejections (why bog staff down with extra email) but do respond to personalized notes (if an editor makes my day, it only seems right). Should I be responding to all/none?
- Are there editor pet peeves to avoid when trying one of those places again?
- If a writer gets specific, gushing praise on a story from all sorts of great mags followed by "not right for this theme" "no space in this issue"...is it bad form to try the rounds again with the same story (repolished) a few years later? I'm thinking specifically for school/program-run mags with high editor turnover, but also generally.
- If I've submitted every good story I've ever written (that fits their guidelines) to a magazine I love, and gotten longlisted or great feedback with each, but no pubs...is my only option to appear in that mag to (groan) start new work? I took me a decade to get 8ish stories to a truly publishable place, and I really want to see them find homes before I start revising/polishing/obsessing over new work.
Would love any advice you have in this space, and regardless, appreciate all the work, thoughtfulness, and humour you've put into this series!
Hi Swati, I commented on the other one as well. These are such great questions I'd love to include the answers in full in a Q&A post this weekend if you don't mind?
I suspect I'm not the typical audience for this series: I'm a writer, yes, but I'm also the editor of a 28-year-old lit mag that I have mostly run as a one-man show (Fiction on the Web). I cannot tell you how much value I'm getting out of this series as an EDITOR wishing to improve and iterate my own lit mag based on the best practice you've been laying out in this course. Every lesson so far has inspired me to update my submissions guidelines or my About page to improve clarity and transparency for the authors who are submitting. You've helped confirm to me that I've been on the right track all this time, but also challenged me to be better. Everything from sharing readership stats, to being more open about how Patreon donations get spent, to creating a little video explaining how stories get sifted and selected (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptfj9pkIeJA). Please let me know if there's anything I can do to thank you! (I have, as a start, become a paid Chill Subs subscriber.)
Your lessons are really informative and amazing. I want to read your poems (read the titles of your poems in lesson 5) where can I read them? Do you have a website?
Thank you. Haha those ones haven't all be published yet. One will be coming out in the next issue of Moon City Review. Another is in Bending Genres. I have a website if you'd like to see: https://daviscommabenjamin.com/
As a writer of poetry & fiction one year into taking submitting more seriously. I've been delighted to receive 16 acceptances so far. Thanks to info in this course, I was prompted to research the acceptance rates of those journals to discover I'm landing work in both mid-tier (10-30% acceptance rates) and a couple of lower-level top tier journals (3-8%). This completely surprised me.
BUT (being vulnerable now) I've submitted to 3 journals featured in this lesson and received rejections. For example, I can now see, comparing my Submittable records to the selection process of "The Sun", I was likely rejected by the first reader. (It went from In-Progress, to Declined in a 5-hour period). Ouch!
My policy when receiving standard form rejections or no personal notes of encouragement is to wait 6 months to a year before submitting, because as writers we're all (ideally) on a trajectory of improvement if we're working at our craft.
Sometimes it's also about finding the right home. A poem rejected by The Sun (a 1%-er) a year ago has just been accepted by Front Porch Review (a high mid-tier journal at 13%) with only minor revisions. And when I see, by some journal's processes I've likely been rejected after one person's reading (in a large team), it makes me realize how incredibly subjective the process sometimes is.
On a down day, it's hard not to feel submitting to journals is like playing the lottery. But I know it's more than that! All we can do as writers is believe in ourselves, read widely, revise ruthlessly, seek out journals that reflect our personal obsessions and predilections, submit the best damn versions of our work - and follow the journal's submission requirements to give our work the highest possible chance of actually being read & not rejected outright. Simple, right? (No wonder writers have a reputation of being obsessive).
As submitters, it's important to celebrate our bravery and willingness to grow the hard way. For any single submitting writer, there's 50 who don't have the courage to put their work out there, to risk rejection and sweat the journal research. So, hey, let's remember to be nice to our writer selves - give them a cool notebook or a stylish pen. Or a Chill Subs subscription. Or cake ... lots of cake. :)
This lesson was amazing to get a behind-the-scenes peek at the selection process for submissions. Thanks to all the editors for their time & the insight into your processes & interesting to see the differences between them. And to Ben for bringing it together!
I guess, Ben, I'd just like to offer this feedback. As a course aimed at beginner submitters, I'd have liked to hear from editors at a mid-tier journal and even a journal at 40%- 50% acceptance rates. Of course it's possible for a talented debut writer to skate in and land in the top tier - but everything I read says "unlikely". Regardless, only hearing from the 1%-ers can be a little discouraging for writers just starting their submitting journey. It would have been interesting to compare differences to their selection process (if any), but also simply to include journals where beginner writers are more likely to receive acceptances into the conversation.
Yeah I am thinking of doing a series in The Sub Club Newsletter with editors sharing this from a whole variety of journals.
Great idea, Ben, to include a diversity of lit journals & their editors. The 1-2%ers already receive a lot of bandwidth. Sure, they have one valid perspective on what makes great reading or writing, but there are others just as valid. Some of my fave reading is in those smaller, quirkier journals - or not even quirky - but those with a very clear aesthetic like Corvid Queen or Crow & Cross Keys or Milk Candy Review.
Hi, Ben. I've a question about definitions. I see the term "indie" or "indie lit" bandied about a lot. I'd always thought it applied to smaller, more alternative lit journals / mags that certainly wouldn't be in the top tier of journals, & would have no external funding. But ways I've seen it used recently, I'm wondering does it actually apply to the lit journal scene as a whole (including those 1%-ers), as an alternative to the book publishing industry? I just want to be sure when I write about the lit journal landscape, I'm using (& understanding) it correctly.
Yes, I would say it applies to 99% of journals. Maybe would only leave out The New Yorker and Paris Review. But indie is generally considered less-known and even the most top-tier spots outside of those two and maybe harpers are not known by the vast majority of folks.
I have had exactly one story published in a magazine (it wasn't a literary magazine), and that was over 10 years ago. Do I mention that in my bio? Since it wasn't a literary magazine, do I mention it? What does the bio look like between 0 and 5 publications?
I'd include them after 3. I think a bio is a great place to show a bit of personality rather than lit mag credits. In terms of what is important. I don't think however many years ago matters. I don't think it matters whether it was a lit mag, personally.
I have a particular fascination about what goes on in the minds of others regarding creative writing, including for editors. The more specific they get (without being snarky about writers) the more clear things feel for me, as someone who has a hard time reading people's intentions and meanings. Great article.
Thank you. Yeah there are definitely snarky and condescending folks in the community. But i try to avoid them at all costs.
I think I should clarify as well. There is a general funny kind of snarky that isn't really aimed at anyone maliciously. Its more (what gets me) of the snark in guidelines or articles (or even policies, even when the website statement says otherwise) that indicate a contempt for writers/artists/submitters, especially new or emerging writers, older or younger or disabled, or otherwise vulnerable writers, who are most vulnerable to quit from thinking they just don't belong, aren't ready to put themselves out there. These are the ones that get me.
Very well done (again). Those in-depth pieces from editors were very helpful. It was interesting to learn that cover letters can be important.
Yeah, ONLY POEMS does like them. But they are also one of those places who like them but won't hold it against you. My favorite type.
I had a very positive experience with the Brevity Blog people. I can't find my correspondence with them (they don't use a submissions manager and my inbox is...yikes!) But I keep brief notes on my rejections/acceptances in a separate file and this parcticular note was "subbed and pubbed in 6 days!" Note that the subject matter was timely which lead to the quick turnaround in this case. But they are very professional, publish a lot, and have a big following.
Gosh, I know. They are wonderful
Hi, Ben! I don't have questions, but I want you to know that I appreciate this informative series. I especially liked Lesson 6 because I have no idea what happens after I hit "Submit." Thanks!
Hurray! Thank you. Yeah I loved reading through their responses as they came in.
I don't have any specific questions, but just wanted to say thanks for this course! You and all of the editors here have been so generous with your expertise and I really appreciate y'all!
Aw, thank you! I appreciate you taking the time to let me know.
This is the best behind-the-scenes piece on what happens at lit mags I've ever seen. It's so hard submitting pieces and not knowing WHAT IS HAPPENING. So this is deeply comforting. Thanks, Ben, and the editors who pulled back the curtain.
I agree! These editor responses are next level. I know it took time to write them and they are already buried in work, but I can only think it will pay off a little in terms of general good will and writers being more mindful of what and how they sub to which mags.
Thank you!
Two questions for editors - I've got three submissions (3 different places) where it's been well past -over 3 months - when two of these places have said 1 month for the time they respond (as stated on their websites). I've reached out to all three twice......and crickets.
Personally I think it's rude and unprofessional. Honestly, I'm about to withdraw all three pieces.
The other question is, is it worth paying extra for feedback? I've done and all but once have gotten some good constructive criticism.
Oof with feedback. That is a tough call. I know some editors truly put their hearts and souls into it. But I tend to treat feedback the same way I do drugs — if someone else had a good experience with this batch, I might give it a try. Otherwise, I tend to avoid those and would hire a freelancer directly. I know some lit mags who offer them, but just outsource to freelancers and take a cut. So, be wary. Ah and response times. Yeah that is unprofessional, but at the same time it is important to remember that not all editorial teams are 'professionals.' Many are volunteers or hobbyists and their unpaid passions can be the first thing cut when times get tough.
I get the volunteer part. I just feel like I'm being ghosted, especially after I've reached out twice.
"especially after I've reached out twice."
This is the one that gets me. I will generally give about twice the amount of time a place says they need (with a few exceptions) before reaching out, up to nine months total. But when I've hit 8 months for a 4 month magazine, or 12 months for an 8 month magazine I start to wonder. Especially if I've reached out two or three times well spaced out to account for busy lives.
But whats the worse is decently known mags that never pay, and never respond to queries about payment problems. Or maybe respond once and never again.
Those are the ones that really hurt my heart. My work was worth publishing but not worth following through on compensation. And now, even if they take my work down if they see a comment like this, I can't submit it again to any other paying magazines that don't want previously published work.
Perhaps for some its ok because the compensation doesn't matter as much. But we are at quite the disadvantage so the time, effort and energy that I spend on each mag matters. I'm pleased to be published. Not so pleased to be ghosted.
I know. Honestly, it's some bullshit. I'd cut them out of your submission plan. I will go over a lot about how to analyze a lit mag for quality in the final week. That might help. But I don't necessarily mean volunteer/unpaid is an excuse. Just that it leads to unprofessionalism in some cases. Personally, I just leave them. As long as they don't have a no sim-sub policy, I can't be bothered. And if they come in before accepted elsewhere, cool. If not, eh. But that's my philosophy with submitting. Once I hit submit, I'm done. It's in their hands. I forget about it until I get a letter one way or another.
Particularly interesting to see how many hands (and eyes) touch most of the submissions. This is why I tend not to mention a specific name in the greeting to my cover letters: I always imagine it's weird to have Geoffrey the assistant editor open my submission and read "Dear Shannon" (the editor in chief).
Yeah I only write to an editor by name if they make it clear they have a limited editorial board with no readers and one person (or two) assigned to a genre. 90% of the time 'dear editors' or 'dear readers' works.
Hi Ben! This has been such a helpful and interesting series--you've officially converted me to a paid subscriber :) I'd love any insight on etiquette/expectations around encouraging rejections for writers at an in-between stage--consistently getting those gloriously kind rejections from mags I love but not quite making it in. I posted these questions on lesson 4 but quite late, so throwing them here. Apologies if you're reading this a second time!
- I don't respond to friendly form rejections (why bog staff down with extra email) but do respond to personalized notes (if an editor makes my day, it only seems right). Should I be responding to all/none?
- Are there editor pet peeves to avoid when trying one of those places again?
- If a writer gets specific, gushing praise on a story from all sorts of great mags followed by "not right for this theme" "no space in this issue"...is it bad form to try the rounds again with the same story (repolished) a few years later? I'm thinking specifically for school/program-run mags with high editor turnover, but also generally.
- If I've submitted every good story I've ever written (that fits their guidelines) to a magazine I love, and gotten longlisted or great feedback with each, but no pubs...is my only option to appear in that mag to (groan) start new work? I took me a decade to get 8ish stories to a truly publishable place, and I really want to see them find homes before I start revising/polishing/obsessing over new work.
Would love any advice you have in this space, and regardless, appreciate all the work, thoughtfulness, and humour you've put into this series!
Hi Swati, I commented on the other one as well. These are such great questions I'd love to include the answers in full in a Q&A post this weekend if you don't mind?
I suspect I'm not the typical audience for this series: I'm a writer, yes, but I'm also the editor of a 28-year-old lit mag that I have mostly run as a one-man show (Fiction on the Web). I cannot tell you how much value I'm getting out of this series as an EDITOR wishing to improve and iterate my own lit mag based on the best practice you've been laying out in this course. Every lesson so far has inspired me to update my submissions guidelines or my About page to improve clarity and transparency for the authors who are submitting. You've helped confirm to me that I've been on the right track all this time, but also challenged me to be better. Everything from sharing readership stats, to being more open about how Patreon donations get spent, to creating a little video explaining how stories get sifted and selected (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptfj9pkIeJA). Please let me know if there's anything I can do to thank you! (I have, as a start, become a paid Chill Subs subscriber.)
Thank you so much! I am really glad this course helps in different ways. I know Fiction on the Web and have only ever heard good things.